Margo: 00:02 Welcome to Sales Leaders Talks brought to you by Callpage. This podcast is for sales and marketing leaders who want to lead their people to success, do more, better and faster each day. Our guests are experienced sales and marketing experts who share their secrets and strategies on everything from team coaching and leadership to marketing and sales tech solutions. Before we move forward, ask yourself this question, "Do you want to excel as a leader and help your company grow?" If your answer is yes, let's get started.
Margo: 00:22 Hi, I'm Margo. Your host today and this episode you're listening to two very inspiring and experienced professionals - Dan Tyre and Todd Hockenberry. They both have a very solid experience in sales and marketing. In this episode, we'll be talking on the principles of inbound and how creating content the right way will help your company grow, hit high revenue, and increase number of customers. If you want to take your business to the next level, and right now you're looking for some solid strategy, how to implement it. You are in the right place right now, so before we go into details, let me introduce Dan and Todd.
Margo: 01:05 Dan Tyre joined Hubspot as a member of the original team. That was in May 2007. He was the first employee in the sales department and was in charge of recruiting, training, and growth or hubspot's sales team. Right now, he is a speaker, writer, and a coach to those who want to achieve inbound success at Hubspot. Dan introduced and basically coined this term called 'Smarketing'. You may have already heard about it because basically thousands of companies around the world have been implementing this concept for years. Smarketing means alignment between sales and marketing departments. Dan as co-author of the book called Inbound Organization and his book is available on Amazon and he wrote this book with his best friend, Todd hockenberry
Margo: 02:01 Todd is gonna be the guest today at this episode as well, so it's and Dan together host Inbound2Grow podcast, where they educate business owners on inbound marketing. Todd is an owner of Top Line Results, the consultancy company, and he helps small and medium sized companies increase revenue and grow. He has got 30 years of experience in direct selling and leading organizations and in this episode Todd and Dan will share the rich experience and explain how being an inbound organization will help your company grow and why investing in content curation and distribution will have profit your company and help increase sales. So let's finally go down to details.
Margo: 02:54 Hello, Todd and Dan, today on our Podcast Marketing Marathon.
Todd: 02:59 Hi Margo.
Dan: 03:01 Hi, Margo. Dan Tire likes to be with you this morning.
Margo 03:04 This is great. How technology can enable us to meet like kind of how it's very popular right now... e-meeting people, right? Not meeting but e-meeting people online.
Dan: 03:16 It's great. We have our own podcast Inbound2Grow, right? We enjoy your podcast and I think it's a super great way of educate folks about the core concepts of inbound.
Todd: 03:29 Exactly. Well, I'm in Orlando, Florida and Dan - in Phoenix, Arizona and you're in Poland. So we just need somebody from Asia and we'd have the world covered.
Margo: 03:37 Right? So today's topic is inbound definitely. I'd like to introduce you guys today more so I'll start with Dan. Uh, I made a lot of research on Dan today because I've watched one of the videos that was recorded in 2014 and I've noticed that's basically the concept that you've talked about then is still very valid for marketing in 2018. So your coined this term smarketing. Smarketing bases on the concept that there is alignment of sales and marketing in the organization. Dan, you are a Sales Director in Hubspot and you were among first employees in the organization.
Dan 04:20 That's true, number one, number one in Sales, number six employee [in general]. But the first salesperson.
Margo 04:29 The first salesperson, right. That's what I've read and what I've listened to the videos. So how about Todd. Could you just explain a little bit to our listeners how did you start with inbound and how did you get here?
Todd 04:45 Sure. Uh, about nine and a half years ago we started our, our agency consulting and a marketing services agency, Top Line Results. And we were working on a lot of sales and marketing issues with clients. And Hubspot was pretty new at the time. Inbound was not something that was really well known, this is back in 2010 and, or 2009 and we just started to kind of follow Hubspot and we realized this was an amazing tool so we started to roll it out to our clients and we do a lot of work with industrial and manufacturing companies and we saw amazing results really fast using the tools and adopting the inbound methodology and creating content so it was kind of the engine that powered the growth of our business and it's been a poor part of what we've done since. And um, and again, we, Dan and I just wrote the book Inbound Organizations. So we've kind of been taking the ideas around inbound out of marketing and kind of applying them to the entire business.
Margo: 05:39 Right. Basically seems that all started with Hubspot. What I remember, and I have witnessed as a marketer, Hubspot has coined this concept of alignment of sales and marketing and has popularized this concept a lot. Today we're going to talk about how companies can generate more leads, but more importantly, how they can generate more customers, paying customers, thanks to inbound efforts in the organization. Could you guys explain this timeline, how it appeared? How, how does this inbound marketing fit in a functioning of organization? How inbound can generate more sales in general?
Dan: 06:20 Sure. I think it all started back in around 2006 or 2007, right? When there was a fundamental change in the way people started to buy, right in the old days, right? Um, in that timeframe, right? If you wanted to buy anything, you either had to talk to a salesperson or essentially go to a retail store, right? And, um, there was a key inflection point earlier in the century where, based on the popularization of the Internet, more and more people did online research that helped, um, you investigate what you were going to purchase. And that process became known as inbound, right? In the old days, the salesperson was at the center of the universe. With that transition, people spent more time focusing on their online research. Right? And only wanted to talk to the salesperson at the end, um, so inbound became a way of attracting people to your website and it starts with, um, uh, a practice where you need to build the proper building blocks. And um, of course one of the main foundations of the book is that to do inbound you need to be inbound. So inbound is all about helping other people first. It's all about focusing on a specific niche rather than being very broad. It's less about business to business, more about business to human. And I'm from an inbound context, you're trying to solve the problems of your customer. And that is the foundation of the inbound revolution.
Margo 08:03 Todd, Could you add something about this evolution? How have you witnessed it? How are you experienced it?
Todd: 08:09 Yeah, I mean from our perspective, inbound was all about the connection of buyers to customers, the customers and people were looking to solve problems and increasingly they were using the Internet to find the answers to their problems. So it was all about being there and being able to get found when people were looking. Again, like I said, we focus a lot on manufacturing in the industrial markets and so there was a great opportunity to create amazing content and what we found was that the buyers had changed. And again, we all know this, right? We have this mobile phone in our pocket, we buy from Amazon, we buy lots of things online, so it, it, it just needed to, um, it just needed to kind of start to affect traditional businesses, which is where we worked and it's, there's still a lot of opportunity there. Most, most industrial and manufacturing kind of businesses have done this well.
Todd: 08:56 So there's a, there's still a lot of room to go. I mean, we're by no means mature in terms of, uh, you know, the, the end of inbound. But I mean, the way I, the way we've seen it is it's a natural thing, right? People want to connect, people want to have their problem solved. And with the Internet they have other opportunities to go look. And you know, the companies that understand how to talk to people in terms of answering questions and being helpful in creating content that it's about the customer's issues and not just their product and features and specifications. Those are the ones that are gonna win. Um, so that impulse has never going to change. A inbound just accelerates it and gives people lots of other opportunities to reach you. So we see we don't see the principles changing. What we do see as the tools and tactics changing, moving forward.
Todd: 09:42 I mean now we're dealing with things like chat and conversational marketing and Facebook Messenger, all these things becoming tools that marketers need to really embrace and apply the principles of inbound to as they move forward. So again, we don't see inbound going backwards, so people aren't going to go back to the old days where they looked in catalogs and they, they had salesman knocking on their door every day. It's going to become more and more personalized all the time. So the companies that understand how to be helpful and personalize those interactions and be where customers want them to be when they want to them to be there with the information they're looking for, those are the companies that are going to be inbound companies and those are the ones that are going to win.
Margo: 10:30 So in Boston has been defined term and as a tool for a lot of companies don't want to interact with their customers through content. Content minutes for example, articles, videos or video content. Let's say some audio content for instance, this podcast episode that we are recording right now. It's also a piece of content that also fits inbound. So basically customers come on their own different way how to find the company and they know they have some kind of problem and they know that this company may potentially solve this problem. So in terms of just reviewing the whole process, how it all goes, how it all looks like from the first contact to say closing the deal and getting this customer how it all looks like for instance, like the customer comes to the web page. How could inbound fit in all the process to bring the customer from the first contact with the page to the last one?
Dan: 11:37 Sure. So, um, it's a little bit different in 2018 then it was just a couple of years ago, right? When you come to a website, you have different expectations, right? Driven by the way we live our lives, the options that we have, uh, the fact that everybody carries around a supercomputer in their pocket with their mobile phone, right? People have different expectations. The first time you show up on a website, you're expectation is that that website knows who you are, that that website is going to give you the right information. In fact, you have about three seconds to provide the right information on that website before someone gets discouraged and jumps to the next one. Therefore, if you have different types of content to encourage people at different part of the sales process, you can greatly accelerate that relationship. So if people are coming to the website the first time, you want to show them what we call top of the funnel opportunities, those top of the funnel content downloads have nothing to do with your product or your service and has everything to do with educating clients.
Dan: 12:48 You're not asking him to buy because only two percent of the people who come to your website the first time are ready to buy, right? You're asking them to allow you to help build trust in a way in which they say, Oh, this company knows who I am. This company's willing to help. This company is a willing to help formulate that relationship now after they. And so by sharing that information, some of it may be in podcast form. Some may be in a download forms, some may be videos, some may maybe checklist. Todd and I really liked the checklist approach because it fits today's busy consumer. Give me the 10 things that I need to do to get ready for back to school or our busy season or to maximize revenue for the remainder of 2018 right now.
Dan: 13:40 Once people have come back to the website multiple times, then you want to be served different information, right? Then they may be ready for a product comparison or a product review or a way of looking at the problem where they want to understand a little bit more about how your product actually solves it. Right, and then finally, after they've been there multiple times, right? They may want to raise their hand. They may want the help of a consultative salesperson, right? To bring through the process in the final stage where the bottom of the funnel, they may want pricing guides. They might want that coupons or discounts. They might want ways in which they can start the relationship and all three of those different categories lend themselves to the best way of engaging.
Margo: 14:29 Yeah. You just described the whole process of how customers go from the top of the funnel to the bottom of the funnel, so we have to serve them different, different types of content to attract them. So probably the, they maybe see these kinds of contents ever on the paid social, so this is the ad that our company advertises, like an article or a video, and then they are attracted by this video or this article. The are like, they want to know the answers. They read this article and they land on our site and how could we do something more like when they read this article, how could we bring them lower into the funnel? That's the question that many companies ask themselves. So we produce content, we produce articles, we produce video content, we produce audio, put it, produce podcasts. But once people notice this content on web, how could they basically go down the funnel later on when they reached this article, this video, this podcast? What would be your solution, Dan?
Dan: 15:34 I'll show. The first thing you want to do is you have to track everywhere. Uh, as someone goes through the buyer's funnel, right, so you need to know if it's the first time or the third time or the fifth time, right? We call that lead intelligence, right? And modern crms have lead intelligence where that is just evident to everyone, both sales and marketing in the organization that's important for marketing because they have to measure the buyer's journey. So important for the salespeople because they need to know when to call. So if you get a middle of the funnel opportunity, right? Margo, how quickly do you think you have to engage a prospect so that they're still thinking about the purchasing decision? What timeframe do you think you have to actually call that person?
Margo: 16:22 I believe that this should be as fast as possible. So in Callpage we call back in like 20, Eh, 28 seconds or under 20 seconds. So I believe that as fast as possible that that would be the way.
Dan: 16:37 Oh baby, I love it. Yes, you're right. It's 100 percent right. Usually I'm about five minutes before somebody moves onto the next thing. So if you could have a salesperson or a consultant engaged within the first five minutes, now all of a sudden you have an opportunity to gauge where the person is to talk to them as a human being and to understand a little bit about what they need to do to take the next step. What do we connect with those folks? We asked them, all right, what were you looking for help with? Right. And it's a great way to start the conversation. It's a great way to understand where they are, the buyer funnel and it's a great way to potentially provide the right information. So they moved to the next step.
Margo: 17:19 Yeah. And what would it be the recipe taught when it comes to bringing people from the top of the funnel somewhere closer to the middle of the funnel, like engagement with them more random, like attracting more attention. I'm making them like reading more articles, watching videos, going down to the funnel. What is your recipe for success here?
Todd: 17:40 I think it always starts with your audience, your customer, and it works back from there. Too many, too many people that I see. Do you use inbound marketing? They do what they want to do, they create content they want to create, and the best content is based on your ideal buyer persona with a deep understanding of the buyer journey they take and the questions they asked and the hurdles they have to overcome to solve their problem and change internally. When you understand that, then you understand the nature of how they go from becoming aware that they have a problem to considering different options. Then making a decision on which one to pick. So our thinking is that the best content comes from that understanding, knowing them and then creating what they need at each of those stages. So too many people just go straight to the decision, the bottom of the funnel, right?
Todd: 18:32 Where they create content that is about buying or worse about price or it's about features. It's the best content in the middle of the funnel. Getting somebody from awareness to move towards that decision or things like case studies or analysis like understanding that I'm choosing this type of a solution yields these results historically. Right? So whatever kind of communicates that. There's a pathway to overcome the barriers internally that everyone has to buying something that's certainly anything of significant value. How do they, you know, helping them convince other people in their organization that this problem is worthy of solving and there's a benefit and a return there, you know, from their perspective. That's really the key. Creating the content from their perspective. I don't really think it boils down to whether it's a blog post or an email or an ebook or a video. Those are tactics and tools.
Todd: 19:28 I think the thing that really drives the value for people is when it's really personal to them, it's, it's the contents created from a position of, of expertise where you know them really, really well and you can bring your expertise from your, your experience with lots of other people like them and you can guide them and you can show them some things. Maybe they don't know, and you can give them a perspective. Having looked at this with lots of other clients that they don't have. So that to me is the best kind of content. And um, there's, there's no magic in the tactics. It's really in the quality of the content and how well you focus it on that persona and their place in the buyer journey. That's what's really gonna drive them further into the process.
Margo: 20:15 Well mentioned a few words, knowing them the best. So as we try to segment these people, because we know that there are a lot of people come into our site, they are different. They have different attributes and probably want to know more about them like who they are, what kind of positions they're taking their organizations or if it's like B2C and who want to know who are they, what kind of personas they are. So we asked them questions and what I've been noticing in these times is that basically a lot of companies are trying to use quizzes to segment people like to ask them questions before they get their ebook, before they get the freebies, some content for free. Then they have to answer several questions - they have to tell who they are, what they are doing, and the. Does it help understand more about the customers who are entering the traffic?
Dan: 21:21 I think that one of the most important things is that, uh, you really understand your buyer personas. And, uh, my co-author, he goes crazy when we start talking about personas, right? Because I'm leaning into really understanding the emotional reasons why people are buying is the essence of a modern sales process. People really don't buy for logical reasons. They buy for emotional reasons. They're trying to solve significant business problems. So understanding and digging into those personas are a critically important at every stage of the way you have these touch points of opportunities where you can reach in and engage. And the key is engagement, right? Uh, it's very interesting that with all of this automation that we have, right? The goal is to make things more human and to ensure that more interaction and human interaction takes place because people still buy from people even in the age of bots and email and messenger and all these, uh, different, uh, technology automation solutions, right? The ability to ask the right questions, understand what people want, make recommendation critically important.
Margo: 22:36 Right. Todd, what are you thinking of segmenting your audience and finding the right way to communicate with their audience through quizzes, for instance, or through other tools that are available right now on the market?
Todd: 22:50 Well, I think, I think a lot of buyers, at least here in the US, are getting more sophisticated in terms of understanding that when they fill out a form and give people's contact information, that they're going to get marketing communications or emails. Now some of the rules in Europe have changed, so that's probably, they have to opt in to those, so that's a little less of an issue. But we've, we're seeing giving away the content without asking for any information and then watching the behavior of people as they consume it and then giving them options to reach out when they're ready is, it is a really effective way to think about it. So if you have chat available where you have instant messaging available, you have all these options for people to reach you how and when they want to, if they're continuing to consume your content, if it's interesting enough then they'll reach out to you when they're ready. But beyond that, certainly we would use segmenting on forms, asking progressively more detailed questions they went along. But again, in the US at least we're seeing less conversions for given offer because again, people kind of know what's up and we would watch the behavior of how more and more people consume content and see what's popular, what's getting shared, what's getting promoted, and then reach out to those people directly, I guess if their behavior meets a certain profile. Um, so I guess what I'm saying is we're at least we're thinking we're moving towards asking for contact information later in the process than we are, say in the awareness stage. So if it's a general ebook, our advice is to, our clients is to give those away, to get it out there, to get them shared, to get more people consuming it, to get buzz going around it.
Todd: 24:31 And, and, um, you know, hopefully you get lots of people connecting and liking and all that good stuff. And then if, if they, they are educated and see the value in it, then they'll come back and look for more. So, you know, we're, we're advising our clients to do the conversion a little bit farther down the road and in the past. Um, but again, quizzes and different things if they're interactive. So for example, if you're giving away a free assessment or a free evaluation or a thing, something like that, those are really great offers to ask questions and if there's a direct value attached to that. And those are really great ways to get started because you give a lot of value upfront. So that's really kind of the way we look at it now.
Margo: 25:13 Right. I also agree that basically we don't have to require from our leads a lot of information in the beginning. I've been noticing that actually a lot of companies try to extract the most information from elites in the very beginning. Meaning that they want to get their phone numbers, they want to get their company names, they wanted to get some additional information of how many employees are in their organization. So it's like the whole form many different forms to fill in in order to get this one piece of content like the ebook or the industry report. It takes so much time to fill in all these forms and that's frustrating. In the beginning I asked only for email or a name. So it's just so much information to fill in in the very beginning, but we can gather it later on in the process of interaction.
Margo: 26:07 Todd, you mentioned that actually we have to track how our users, how our context interact with our content on the page. We have to track what kind of content or read on the page on our blog, what kind of videos they watch, what are the other content they consume, and then on the basis of this information with how to make up the action action plan of what to do next, but how could we automate this process? How could we like, we are somewhere on the middle of the funnel. So with where I think thinking how to bring our customers from the middle of the funnel to the bottom of the funnel, meaning that we want to convert them into paying customers. How could we automate the process of interaction on the level of like the middle of the funnel?
Todd: 26:55 Yeah. Or, or if you're trying to go from middle to the bottom of the funnel, you're getting to the point where people are more serious about making a decision. They've researched it, they have looked at options in many ways. We're looking at the opposite. We would look at how not to use automation and how to be more personal in those interactions. That's where we would be, uh, you know, uh, a direct outreach from a salesperson with some helpful information and an offer to connect and have a conversation to talk about how to kind of answer any final questions or any or overcome any hurdles or objections they have, you know, people are going to react to, to automation in some negative ways I think because automation, just because you can do it doesn't mean you should. And even if you do it you to make sure you do it in a way that doesn't feel like automation because people, I don't want to be treated like a number, right?
Todd: 27:45 I love the personal touch and I love the one on one interactions with people when they're helpful and I don't think that's ever going to change. So, you know, again, I think you can automate some of it, but I'm obviously using tools like hubspot and, and being able to kind of monitor those all the interactions and touch points of your clients or prospects is really important. Uh, and it's a critical piece for companies moving forward. At some point though, you need to step back from that and say, how do I make this one to one connection with somebody anyway? It's definitely something you've got to concern yourself with the over automate and then I think you can turn people off if you over automate, but I'm just creating a sequence of emails and continuing to send people emails, um, doesn't necessarily work anywhere near as well as it used to. So you need to. My warning to companies would just be used automation cautiously.
Margo: 28:36 Yeah. Yeah. I totally agree. That personalization factor is really important, but let's, let's refer to Dan who has been selling the hubspot automation systems perhaps with automation, but the software. How are you selling this? Like if, if there are some agencies, if there are some companies who want to automate the process of connecting with their customers or their potential leads and the level of like middle of the funnel, how would you sell this to them? Not like in the sense of software, but in the sense of the idea how to connect with potential clients on the level of the middle of the funnel. How should it look like?
Dan: 29:16 Well, Margo, you know that over the last 10 years, right, we've done a lot of presentations. We've talked to hundreds, probably thousands of folks, right? No one says inbound is a stupid idea. We don't want to get found for people who are looking for us online, right? Everybody says it's a brilliant idea. We obviously have to leverage this, right? They just want to understand how to do it right? So the whole reason we wrote the inbound organization book is to give people that foundation when you're in the middle of the funnel, right? People have come back to the website maybe three or four times. They've either downloaded some of your content, they provided some information. They've, uh, um, like a recognized, uh, are, are, are recognized as one of your personas, and you should know after those interactions, if they're a good fit or not at that point in time, right? Engaging with those folks either with a short survey, right? Or asking them what's the best way for us to provide information. Right. Some people would prefer a short video. Some people would prefer email, some people would prefer text, some people would prefer a information via a video email. Margo, have you ever received a video email?
Margo: 30:33 Basically I have, but it was in the form of the GIF, rather rather than a video.
Dan: 30:40 Uh, GIFs aren't the exact same thing, right? What I want to do is in a video email, it's one of the biggest ways that will accelerate a middle of the funnel opportunity to a bottom of the funnel opportunity and you'll see a picture of me in my Hubspot T-shirt and I'll say, Margo, I know you've come to the website five or six times. I saw that you downloaded this one or two pieces of content. I want to have a conversation with you to try to determine where you are in the, in the, in the process. And I'm under. I would like to understand what I can help with. Now all of a sudden you see me as a human being. Now all of a sudden, I'm not a sales guy. Now all of a sudden I'm somebody who's willing to help you solve that problem in a video. Email is a great way to personalize the experience, to recognize what you've done previously and to make sure that you and I are on the same page and that you realize that, uh, I'm not trying to like sell you something. I'm trying to help you in a way in which it will make it easier for you to solve a problem.
Margo: 31:40 Alright, just to clarify here, Dan. You mentioned that we have to send some emails to customers. It will want to put it in some kind of a framework. How do we connect with customers on the level of the middle of the funnel? We are sending some sequence of emails, right where we want to show our personal face when we want to show that we are like human beings. We're not machines. If we talk about email marketing, how often should we send emails and what kind of framework should we work out here?
Dan: 32:17 It should be logical. It should make sense. It should absolutely be personalized, right? It should be relevant to where I am in the buyer's process, right? If you send me top of the funnel opportunity or top of the funnel information when I'm in the middle of funnel is too basic, I already know that, and in 2018, Margo, I get a little annoyed, right? I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. We've already covered this. Right? And because everybody's busy, even the nicest people, unless the information is tailored directly to them and individualized as a person, it's not a kind of a pleasurable or a positive experience. I believe that if you're actively pursuing a, uh, an opportunity, an email maybe twice a week, maybe three times a week, two or three times a week is sufficient. Right? Emails today have to be a little bit different. They're not like, um, paragraphs. They're bullet points, right? It has to be able to read it on a mobile phone. It has to be able to, um, focus on, uh, the right information to the right person at the right time. All of that has been collected by the various interactions that people have had on your website.
Margo: 33:38 Alright. Dan, That's a good point. That basically reads in a different way online than offline. Todd, What do you think about email marketing in 2018? Does it make sense to send multiple emails or doesn't make sense rather to send emails based on the behavior of a person? Like based on the interaction of the person on the webpage
Todd: 34:02 Sure, they've opted into email communications and marketing communications they've told you they want to be educated and informed and kept up to date by you? Absolutely. And the more you can personalize it and tailor it to their specific behaviors. So if you know your audience is, or your, your, um, your email list and you can track using hubspot or other tools, what webpages they view or what blog post they read, right? If you can discern some patterns there and create lists of people that show an interest in a particular topic, then yes, you absolutely should be sending emails to those people about those ideas. The more you can personalize those emails and make them helpful to their specific issue where they are in the buyer journey, then you're going to absolutely have a better interaction with those people and you're gonna, you're gonna, you're gonna.
Todd: 34:47 See a lot of a lot of results. Email's cheap and it's a low cost and I've seen data recently that email marketing is still one of the highest return marketing things you can do. The key is to do it right. You gotta have you gotta get their attention. You've got to have their permission to do it and then you've got to create value in those emails. I mean, I subscribed a ton of emails from different people and there's a lot of them that I look forward to. I'm looking forward to getting that email because I know this can be valuable stuff there. That's the anticipation you want to create with your audience. You want to create. You want to get them looking forward to seeing your information because it's so interesting and helpful if you can do that. That email was awesome.
Margo: 35:25 Alright, let's talk about some particular triggers that like based on our distributors, emails are sand from. So to her, like for instance, hubspot. So what kind of triggers should we set there a maybe number of times that users who visit our webpage or maybe how they interact with the emails if they opened it, if they respond to this email, how could we set this, this, this kind of triggers? Maybe that's the question to Dan who is basically in charge of this.
Dan: 36:00 I liked that, but it's also which pages they look at, right? If somebody goes to a pricing page, that's usually an indication that they're a little further down the road. If they go to a video, uh, and uh, watch a six minute video. Margot, when was the last time you watched a, a, an entire eight minute video?
Margo: 36:18 I mean, I've watched for the first two minutes because my attention span is too low.
Dan: 36:27 It's not just you, it's everybody and it's not that you have a low attention span, it's just that that's the way it works. Right? And so, uh, you're busy, there's a lot of things going on. And so, um, if somebody watches a full six or eight minutes, you know, that person is interesting. I have a, um, a inbound agency that I work with in Arizona and, uh, they do a lot of video. They send out a eight minute video and at the six minute mark, if somebody is still watching that video, they text the salesperson, the salesperson picks up the phone and said, are you at the part of the video where the cat is sitting on the white couch? And the person, if they pick up or like, Ooh, that's a little weird, right? Because they're watching the video and the person is calling them and saying, did you get to that point? The video? But, uh, their close rate is 100 percent. I didn't believe it until they showed me the stats. They've closed over $300,000 worth of business. I think it makes perfect sense, right? If somebody watches six minutes of a video, right? They are very, very interested. They've really already made the decision. We just have to make it easy for them to buy. And I thought that was a great explanation or example of how inbound can really. Well
Margo: 37:44 My next question, because I've witnessed some agencies, some companies are doing videos that are quite long and mainly like a lot of people think that the longer the video is the more effort it takes towards till the end and when you place this video in your facebook ads and you presumed that if people watch more than two minutes, then we can retarget them with something else. Like another piece of content, for example, the masterclass, the video course they can enroll for and then we can send them back to our webpage and then they enroll into this course and they can watch the whole sequence of four videos - e.g. five videos. So we assume that if people watch more than two minutes or three minutes, they are more prequalified for the sales process later on, do believe it works on paid social, like if we placed ads in vacant on facebook and we want to reach these people on the top of the funnel to convert them somewhere to the middle of the funnel when they enroll to the video course, and then back to the bottom of the funnel when they can become our customers.
Margo: 38:58 Todd, what do you think about this? Does it matter in terms of facebook ads and paid social?
Todd: 39:04 Well, I'm not an expert in paid ads and facebook social, but again, I always tie it back to the persona and the buyer journey. Is your audience using those tools? If they are that, it's. It's worth experimenting and then it's always a test, right? You run some tests and you see what the results are in the engagement you get and that's always our, our philosophy on any kind of paid ads, but again, it's going to be driven by your customers and your prospects. Not necessarily by whether you just want to do, um, it's, it's, it's always a show me the results and again, we see we see a lot of success and engagement with some of those tools. We do a lot with linkedin and again there's, there's, there's always a sub segment of people that are not gonna engage with paid ads. So it's always a good combination. It's like a website like Seo, right? You want to get ranked highly organically and if you do pay to as sometimes you come into the combination, you catch, you catch a lot more interest that way. So um, you know, our philosophy on those, on any paid ads or show me the results and then we'll decide if it's, if it's good return and the return is driven by is the audience there and do they engage?
Margo: 40:17 Alright. So basically we can to consider in practice how it works on this paid social and how it kind of works well are like bad in a bad way. We should invest more money or less money in. So Dan, could you just summarize what is the logic behind creating content? Probably listeners who are listening to this podcast episode right now, they're thinking, okay, so what, what should I do with this content? I have articles like how would we do this, but how could I fit it into different levels of the funnel when people are just trying to find out who we are to people who are just somewhere in the middle of the funnel, when they're thinking about the solution already? What kind of content should we place on the top of the funnel? What kind of content should we place in the middle of the funnel? And what kind of content should be somewhere in the bottom?
Dan: 41:11 Yeah, so top of the funnel content options are nothing about your product or service is all about helping the person that you're trying to help. So that would be checklists or I'm a 2018 guides or uh, information that explains that, you know, the prospect problem. It's a way in which you're essentially telegraphing that, um, you are an expert in this area, that you understand both the problem as well as potential solutions and that you're willing to give away some of your expertise in an attempt to build that trust in the middle of the funnel. You want to get a little bit deeper into your product or service and ways that you might be able to help in the, uh, the second phase, the middle of the funnel. People do understand they have a problem and they typically recognize that now they want to solve it. And so now you can, um, explore a potential ways that your product or service solves that problem better. And then bottom of the funnel is, um, information about to how to purchase a pricing, packaging start dates, all of that information so that people who have decided, yes, I have a problem, uh, in top of the funnel and second of all, a two, yes, I think that you may be able to help solve that problem. Three, this is how I actually go forward and start the relationship or, uh, implement the purchase. So that I can get it done.
Margo: 42:38 Yeah. I noticed that basically in the bottom of the funnel, a lot of companies use this strategy that they tried to make some kind of a comparison of their product to the product of the competition. So let's say as Hubspot, hubspot is some marketing automation platform, marketing automation software, I, I presumed that might potentially compete with Active Campaign with Aweber, Aritica or something like, like the, this kind of platforms. So you're definitely create some kind of a list of features or some kind of solutions that your platform provides in comparison to other platforms and strike what you do better, like point out at the features or the solutions that you can provide in a better way or you can do better. Uh, so do you believe that this kind of comparisons are efficient on probably the, you may bring your customers from your solution, from your platform to the platinum or the competition because customers may think that the competition is a bit better or probably the, they are a better fit for the competition.
Dan: 43:47 So for us, we want to make sure that we truly understand our customer. It used to be that it was buyer beware. The buyer was on the hook for making the right decision today. It's seller beware. Today I have to make sure that the people that buy our product or a good fit so many times that like a competitive analysis is super important because if somebody figures that they're better off at another rep product, that's actually better for me. The last thing I want them to do is to buy hubspot and be dissatisfied because today your customers at the center of all your customer acquisition. If you have happy customers and your customers will vouch for you, right? You're able to grow. If you have disgruntled customers or people that aren't using the product and that's your fault, right? And it's going to impact your raw public perception and your ability to bring on additional clients. So we say the riches are in the niches. We want to make sure that your servicing at a very high level, the right type of customer and if you lose a customer because they go someplace else or even we wrote about this in the Inbound Organization book. Even if somebody says, I want to buy and you don't think it's a good fit, right? It's better if you don't sell to that customer. Right. Because it will have a significant impact on their business.
Margo: 45:17 Yeah. I, I guess there is this book of Clayton Christensen who wrote about disruptive innovation pointed out at the fact that you have to serve first your niche, the niche that to define serving this to some particular services. Not very broad, but rather narrow services and then expanding to some broader services. Am I right in this case?
Dan: 45:41You are now. You are Margaret. I have to jump to my next meeting, but. So, uh, thank you so much for inviting Todd and I to that podcast. Super excited to spread the inbound organization in the inbound world and, uh, look forward to connecting with you at inbound or, um, in the future.
Margo: 46:01 Yeah, sure. And what are your comments on the bottom of the funnel? How should it look like? What kind of content should we deliver to our users, to our potential customers?
Todd: 46:12 Well, bottom the funnel is all about credibility and objections and I'm really making the final case for ROI and why your company or your solution is, is different, better than the other options. So this is the stage where they're looking at two, three, four different potential options to choose from. So your job is to be the best one at helping that through the process and get to the answer. So a lot of times that's case studies or it's maybe a checklist. Here are the, here's the guide to answering the final questions is you make a choice. We've seen that work very well, you know, a series of questions and things like asking, making sure you're asking these questions of anybody you're considering. And, and um, obviously you would use those in a way that would put your solution in the best light. But case studies and testimonials and ratings and reviews and all those things are where you can bring in third party credibility.
Todd: 47:10 I think are huge at the decision making stage and I really think it's becomes the combination of your expertise and your experience and communicating that in whatever way your audience wants to hear it is the best way to do it. And um, sometimes it's a calculator may be for Roi or sometimes it's just knowing all the questions to ask and then communicating that with your, with your potential buyer is, is, is really what you're trying to do in the bottom of the funnel. Right? So it's not trying to, it's not about trying to trick them or fool them, it's about helping them kind of make that final decision in a way that's the most helpful for them.
Margo: 47:49 I hope that we made a very productive or very useful overview or how this process looks like from starting from the top of the funnel coming through the middle of the funnel and ended up at some of our like, bottom of the funnel. So I hope that our listeners understood how it works, so probably would stop here the bottom of the funnel and that's a nice discussion and how we can finally convert.
Todd: 48:17 Thanks very much for having us, Margo.
Margo: 48:18 Thank you.
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